Why hate mail?
I'm more of a realist than a saleman. Who wants to read all of the self-promoting drivel other websites post from fawning customers? I realize that 98% of people want to see dirt. Nobody reads the nice junk. They want filth. Just like Jerry Springer, CNN, FOX and Drudge...dirt sells. Plus it can be pretty damned funny sometimes. Sure, it's nice to receive a compliment, but wagging them in public to fluff your image or to fish for still more compliments is a bit annoying. If you're happy with us and our stuff, compliments are OK and we do appreciate them. However, we're not going to post them like eager parents posting kiddie scribble on the fridge. But if you're pissy, annoyed, insulted or just feel like being a jackass, we just might give you some air time. All emails will be posted verbatim. So, if you can't spell, can't comprehend the Caps Lock key or have poor grammar, be prepared to be embarassed...
I know my size!
Context: This guy called and HAD to have a tanker jacket immediately for his shindig. Gina was crystal clear that the only size we had left was XXL, and that if we sewed patches on, and it didn't fit, a 30% restock fee would apply (due to stitch holes if we removed the patches).
"Oh no problem, I have a 50" chest, please, pretty pretty please I gotta have my bling on it..."
So, like a dumbass, Gina caves in and violates my rule that everyone must try on their uniform first and then send it back for sewing. Initially, it was too big and he wanted to send it back- and he was mad because "real" chevrons are black not dark blue (yes, he really knows his stuff). Once she reminded him of the return policy on sewing, the list of defects suddenly grew exponentially. The wool was scratchier (because it's 100% wool instead of a blend), the cuffs looked different, the label was terrible (ours hand my hand-screened ones which looked awful so wtf?) and, oh, yeah, it was still too big.
His response was very typical for those who cannot read the tags in their own clothing- or who think that somehow they can shrink or stretch the wrong size to fit. They conjure up all sorts of interesting "defects", threaten boycotts and scream alot. We haven't made US uniforms here in 8 or 9 years and we do not advertise our current ones as "US made". They wouldn't be any better and they'd cost twice as much which I'm sure would make him even happier. And, had it been one of the jackets we made here, it still wouldn't have fit. These "KNOCK OFFS" are made with our same patterns.
Gina
I tell you what Gina, I'll just sell this piece of crap jacket on ebay as the reject that it is and then whenever I speak to anyone at our re-enactments I will be sure to inform them of the quality or better yet the lack of quality, of your merchandise. The only reason I bought your jacket is because I believed it was made in the USA, wrong. It is just some forgien knock off that you are passing as a exact copy of the original. You should have stuck with the item that my friend bought from yall before you went cheap, now that's jacket you could be proud of. I don't want to waste anymore of you time as I could go on and on, but I will take this as a lesson learned. The old saying " You get what you paid for " really don't apply, I paid good money for a imported cheap KNOCK OFF of a classic jacket. I would not disgrace my jeep by wearing this jacket in it. Yall have a really nice day.
Rodney Quick
........Rollin
You being a DICK in your response has proven what a great business man you are. It will be my pleasure to off load this rag that you have passed off as a reproduction. Your attitude is dam near as bad as your product. Perhaps you should import a new attitude.....oh that's right you've doing that for over 8 years now. As the Brits would say " PISS OFF " and have a nice day!
Rodney Quick
Immoral shipping.
Context: This was an order shipped to Canada. The amount on the label was $4 lower than what was charged. Since we switched to the shopping cart website, the info about the $5 surcharge we have always added to international shipments was not easy to find. Frederic called Gina as she was closing for the day and gave her a piece of his mind. He told her that she was a lying dishonest, immoral thief. (Those exact words but not necessarily in that order.) And people say I lack tact. I will pay closer attention in the future and try to learn from the masters.
The start...
At 06:36 PM 4/8/2011, asciticabrasion@hotmail.com:
hey there,
this is concerning the German paratroopers boots i bought last
friday. despite my request for a surface postage i was charged an
EMS fee for the amount of $51. i've got the boots now and the label
shows that it was paid $46.78. when i confronted your sales lady
about this she was not helpful at all. it's definitely not cool to
overcharge someone for or make money off of shipping so i would like
a partial refund please. thanks -Fredric
Subject: Re: ATT: ROLLIN SHIPPING CHARGES ON MY BOOTS
Frederic,
Gina is supposed to charge $5 above the UPSP rate for internationals-
this covers the extra time it takes my employees (who unfortunately
don't work for free) to fill out all the customs forms, extra
shipping labels and look up rates and email back and forth. It also
helps pad things as the post office website has a habit of quoting
one rate when we check it and then spitting out another when we print
the label. That skew can go either way depending on the mood of the
post office computer system.
We spend about $4,000 each month on boxes, $15,000 on UPS and USPS
fees. On average we lose or make about $200 on what we've charged
customers for freight.
As for making money on shipping, we probably broke even on yours. The
boxes cost an average of $1.25 and doing the forms takes about 15
minutes- my employee cost is about $15 per hour so we may have
actually lost a fraction.
I did make it more clear last night on the shipping page- it was on
the old one but didn't get transferred over. One of the many typos on
the new site. As I stated in red letters on the new page, we reserve
the right to make corrections blah, blah...
Many people don't appreciate how much it costs to pack and ship
orders. It's not so simple as it appears. So, if supposedly making $4
is istill unaccpetable, just return the boots for a full refund and
try elsewhere.
Thanks,
Rollin
Now he's getting polished...
X-RCPT-TO: <contactus@atthefront.com
X-IMail-ThreadID: 052400005c8d6a11
a true classic hilly-billy approach to solving a problem. i couldn't
expect more. i can tell by your poor grammar and offensive approach,
ie the way you're treating your customer, that you're barbaric. you
make money off shipping. your website says nothing about such extra
s/h costs, it only has a very poor verbose writing. but i am going
to give you some crappy feedback online that it could help someone
else before buying from you.
Hi Fred,
You're fun. We need some dirty laundry- compliments are not very entertaining. I just wish there was a bit more substance to this one.
1. Given the obvious superiority of your intellect, I'm surprised you can't comprehend that boxes and labor costs money.
2. I'll give you front billing. Try the Facebook page for starters, (there's a link on the New page) and then the new Reenactor Consumer Guide will be another good spot. Since it's new you'll be able to make it clear to everyone what dicks we are. I'll make room for you on the hate mail page too.
3. As for the $5 thing, it is on the shipping info page, but I do need to condense the page. It's too long. http://www.atthefrontshop.com/articles.asp?ID=57
It's about 2/3 of the way down. Since you are obvioulsy a person who takes each dollar seriously, I'm surprised you didn't notice she actually undercharged you by $1.
4. Nowhere does it state that we do or don't "make money" on freight. But, just to be fair, let's pretend boxes and labor time are free and we make $4 (rip everyone off). Have we broken a law?
5. I'm not a southerner- I'm not from Kentucky. My people skills are the Army's fault.
6. Had you not started out being nasty to Gina on the phone, and reading the entire website to her, she might have refunded your $4. But what do I know? I'm just a stupid St. Louis redneck anyway.
Thanks for the laundry,
Rollin
P.S. We're refunding your $4. It is not an admission of guilt, or a change in our immoral shipping policies, but I feel the entertainment you provided me is well worth that amount.
The finale:
fuck you, man. keep the $5. you came off like an asshole cause you are an asshole. you can't help it. and Gina is a fat ugly bitch.
"All International Orders are assessed a $5 surcharge to cover the extra time required to fill out the extra paperwork (customs forms, etc, etc)"
haha you probably added this just now. otherwise she would've noted it.
I'm not able to mount any sort of effective defense in the face of such an intellectual onslaught. And yes, I am an asshole, but he's wrong about Gina. She's not fat.
That's it. Until he sees this page.
44 Dot Rant:
From: "Marco van de Wakker" <vdwakker@hotmail.com
Sent 11/22/2009 7:26:25 AM
To: contactus@atthefront.com
Subject: .......
Ok Motherfucker,put a stealgrenate in your ass!
BW means BEKLEIDUNGSWERKE!
NO BUCHENWALD!
You are such a asswhole,seller with a big attitude
Go to hell with your along with your trash!
Just for Marco's information-
1. I never stated that "BW" (as in SS-BW) meant "Buchenwald".
2. The Buchenwald camp did indeed make textiles- along with G-43's and V-2 parts.
So, uniforms produced at that camp could have been marked "BW"- as could uniforms made at other camps, shops or ghettos.
So my attitude remains intact. Next...
KY Cheerleader
Wade does not like my Kentucky Rant. Either it's too clsoe to home or he lives in Louisville or Lexington and has yet to
experience the Simple Life...
"If you don't like Kentucky why just shut up and hit the road. We don't need any more bullshit out of you . you have seen your last dime from me . sorry Gina but yor boss is to mush of an asshole to buy from Ps I'm going to download this anti Kentucky bullshit print it and put it on all the cars in the wallmart parking lot with your phone number JERK"
For the Fat Rant Part 222:
"Rollin, hunting with fmj ammo FELONY ,hunting with an mg 42 FELONY [state & fed} hunting out of season within 300 feet of a road or bilding and hunting without a licence are ALL crimes in Ky -----and you just told the world---dumbass Have fun with Ky fish & wildlife and the ATFE PS shipping dead wildlife throgh the US MAIL FELONY"
Grand Prize Winner
The following is the responses from an agitated ex-Marine who's P44 cap had the EGA off-center by 2mm (.08"). (He claims 6.5mm (.25") but I got out the digital calipers just to be sure since I couldn't see which way it was off.) Normally, we get this sort of thing from wannabe Marines, not real ones. I had one instructor at PLDC that might have been able to compete, but he was a leg and I doubt that he could write half as well as this guy.
"Being that I am a 1st of November 2007, retired from the Marine Corps after 30 years of service, Chief Warrant Officer 5, I know quite well what the center mass on the emblem decal is in relation to the front tab of the utility hat. With just my simple Marine Corps eyeballs, I found the cap was quite silly looking. Then, without aid of any digital caliper and using a plain ole ruler, I measured the decal, using the head of the eagle to be centerline through the globe, and found the decal to be 1/4 inch left of center on the 3-inch wide front tab. That is 1/4 inch left of the 1-1/2 inch centerline.
As far as your two originals you use for a standard I've been to countless Cash Sales over the years at many duty stations where emblem decal screwed up utility caps were piled up unsold. You see, Marines do not like wearing crappy utility hats... even you admit to this "We know that the most important aspect of these caps is the EGA. It is so hypercritical to the fit and function of the cap as to be indescribable."
As far as using "We have had a few customers examine their cap with micrometers and feeler gauges and determine to their shock and fury that we screwed up the EGA's" the only one I've ever found to do this... is you! Marines only need to use their eyes and I only used a ruler to identify how far off the decal was for you.
But, if you are telling me you have used your “original caps” as a standard instead of the proper uniform and clothing regulations for the decal to be centered both horizontally and vertically, then I do agree that you should send a refund to me."
I then explained how these are made, that my originals are 4mm and 5mm off-center (respectively) and that we couldn't afford a laser designating system at the present time to achieve the perfection he required. I refered him to a couple of other vendors. They'll be sooo pleased....
"And I doubt any real Marines you have sold bad caps to would have let it go. After all, we hold ourselves to higher standards. And the proof is in the fact you had to add a complaint to your ebay page due to the high number (probably way greater than the 10 that you profess) of buyers telling you how far off your emblem decal is.
And let me be very crystal clear... inking the decal on before you make the hat is just plain laziness and sloppy work. A simple jig made to place the cap on to ink the decal after the cap is made would provide greater accuracy and a more professional product. Something you probably could not comprehend. Marines in the 40s and 50s who wore the P44s sure found a way to ink on their Eagle, Globe & Anchor on after the cap was made. Something you apparently do not have the skill to to. You can bet those Marines got their Eagle, Globe and Anchor centered too...
The real proof of what you say would be to take a large front angle photo shot of MY supposedly good-to-go cap... and put that picture in your ebay sales and at your AnTheFront website.. You currently show the cap at an angle so the decal looks OK. You and I both know why... I bet a whole lot fewer army guys who like to play Marine would even buy your cap with such an off-centered decal. Let's just see if you are up to putting a large front shot picture of MY returned cap all over your for sale sites. Should be no problem for you to use and since it is so centered everyone will want to buy a cap that looks just like the one you sent me~
If you continue to send out such crappy hats like the one you sent me you will have many many more caps being returned back to you. I would suggest you correct the problem as you will continue to lose money on paying back buyers for each bad cap you send.... and/or start getting the negative feedbacks that you deserve."
Probably fake, but not bad:
Because of the disrespect and snobbish attitude you have given to the efforts of Living Historians and our efforts to honor history, I have advised my entire crew to avoid buying any articles from your site. You have brought this upon yourself.
Gerhardt Karpentier
Hauptman
U-403 Crew
Perhaps, if you bothered to read news papers, you would have noticed that there is a serious problem with obesity in the United States. To “just say no the doodle burger” is as insulting as Betty Ford’s solution to the drug problem (about which I assume you are intimately familiar, considering the tone of you ravings). Perhaps a little more understanding on your part could go along way. There were weight challenged soldiers in all armies in WWII.
Sgt F Arbuckle
Welsh Light Infantry
British Special Forces
Hate Mail
I simply don't get this one. Can anyone explain this to me? What does this guy want?
Initial emails already deleted. Basically, our old description on the site stated that the M41's had a wool lining. The older generation had some sort of wool/ poly blend. No label was present. My dumbass didn't update the site when the newer version came in. The guy's initial email basically stated that he had noted the difference, was unhappy and pointed to the erroneous description. I offered immediate refund (shipping and all), changed the site and offered alternatives, both ours and other vendors. Learned my lesson...
Hi Perry,
Sorry to hear about this, are you perhaps wanting one of our tanker jackets?
These have the good heavy wool lining.
The M41's we have always carried are more like a spring jacket. Light weight.
Were the originals heavier? I've not seen one so I am only aware of this one we have in stock.
I know there are about four other companies that carry this same exact coat, we all order them from the same maker. I think Jerry Lee at What Price Glory may be carrying a different one, he is listed under our links page. You may want to ask him if his are a thicker wool.
Is there any thing else I can do to help?
ATF
Gina
sales dept.
No, that's ok as she has allready had a divisional insigna sewn to the jacket(for Christmas) and has already went through the routine of returning the first M41(blue blob on the sleeve)she ordered so I'll just keep it. It fits and looks good but it's not as heavy as the orginals with wool lining. I understand most people are concerned with the item being khaki but I'm not that picky, just want one like pictured and described on your site. My only concern was having one made like a original(with wool) which your site states you make them like originals with brown flannel wool. I understand the cost of wool has risen, but from your site you were selling M41's with wool lining at the price I paid for one with acyrlic. I hope your not stating it's my fault since I only paid $90 for one, and that customers should know one with real wool would be well over a $100 regardless of a key error in the description. People order/buy from what you state about your items. So since insigna was added to the jacket (she thought it was wool since that's what she read the jacket's were made of) I'll have to keep it. If you wanted to do more it would be soley a moral issue for you of right and wrong. Lastly a update of your site would avoid future problems, unexpected surprises, aggravation, extra shipping costs, wasted time to the usps and so on for both sides. From your site I see that your feed up with people in the past that send checks that bounce, worry about something that doesnt match what their doll is wearing, people that complain you can't make and ship a item in one day and people fail to size themselves properly then blame you. So I guess you could understand the way I feel when someone buys a reproduction M41 from you, made like an orginal as its described by you and recieve one that is only 50% like an original. Customers feel no different than you over things like this, and there are some that just want a transaction to be simple where both parties do as expected in a honest transaction, the seller gets his money as expected and the buyer gets the item he was looking at. Regards, Perry Floyd
I have reread our description three times now and I do not understand how you thought we had misrepresented our jacket.
Perhaps you are looking at another jackets information?
I have asked the owner to find an original I can look over, but he is out of town now until after the new year.
This way I will be better informed, as your letter has already helped me.
Thank you for taking the time to write me back. Sorry I could not be of any help.
Gina
Thanks for your response Gina.
To answer your question , yes, the originals were a heavier, thicker jacket. Comparing it to the one you sell, advertised like an original, would clearly show the shortfall and miswording of your description. Being a company that survives on a collector and reenactor market I'm sure someone at your company would know what a orginal would look like. From the wording on your advertisements your a company that prides itself of making quality reproductions, made like originals. When someone buys from you that is "out of the loop" so to speak of reproduction/reenactor clothing company's, all they have to rely on is what you state in your sales advertisements and descriptions. Remember this was a gift to someone(me) that has no interested in reenactor clothing except that I wanted 1 M41 jacket just like a original to wear, just like someone that would want a reproduction A-2 flight jacket for modern wear.
I took the advice from the other e-mail by someone at ATF and took a look at the one sold by WWII Impressions. They do state up-front that they have one with a 100% acrylic lining and that it's close to a original, with a price of $80. This is the same jacket you sell for $90 with a incorrect description. They seem very honest and state upfront what the jacket is, If I knew this from reading your description or if I new the existance of WWII Impressions I would have callled you to clarify what you state since the jacket they have is the same you sell but with a different description. I would have no doubt seen the error made by you and would have been able to make the right decision.
Like I mentioned in my previous e-mail, this is just a case were a item was mis-represented, a buyer took your word that what she was buying was what you were describing.
What should have occured was you should have advertised it as WWII Impressions does. If you had, we wouldn't be exchanging e-mails today and I would have the jacket I originally wanted as I would have seen that one exactly like a original with wool lining would cost $175, which would have been paid. When you vist your site a reproduction M41 like the originals with brown wool flannel lining are $90, so that's what we thought they cost. I had no idea of the other companies. Had I known I would have seen this is a cheap version of the jacket and would have made the purchase from WWII Impressions as they were clearly accurate/honest in their description ( I know as I now have the jacket they are describing).
Anything you choose to do is strictly a morality issue of right and wrong. In this day, this means alot to some and is worthless to others.
Regards..
I do see that now, you can think what you like but I was not aware of this at the time of my last letter.
I see in the boxes two completely different jackets from the same maker we have always gotten them from. I think maybe you received this more recent stock then what we have had in the past.
Send the jacket back and I will give you a complete refund including initial shipping charged as well as regular ship cost back to me . Just send it in a regular method, If you send it back overnight I will not refund that expense. If you will please include the invoice if you have it, so I can do it as soon as the jacket gets here.
This is going to be a new jacket with just a patch sewn on right? You haven't made any major alterations?
Also I do not ever do the updates..don't even know how.
Thank you for waiting for me to get this mail and take care of your order.
Gina
Sales for ATF
Gina the description was changed after my first e-mail, by someone at ATF. Please don't think I'm so ignorant that I would fall for what your doing...You took at the wool word describing the lining out and added it was a lighter jacket for better wear in the summer, or something to that effect.
Doing so really shows me the character flaw of someone at ATF.
Regards...
Perry
NOTE: I had changed the description by this time, as requested. WTF? My middle name is Lucifer....
Gina you have missed my point entirely. I'm not going to return the jacket, it was a gift and she already went to the trouble of returning the first one (blue blob on the sleeve). On every correspondence to ATF I ended it with the moral issue of right and wrong, evidently this is foreign to you. I wanted you(atf) to admit that you had made a serious error in the description of your jacket, state to me you will correct the description on your site so no on else may be fooled and lastly offer a sincere apology in good faith. Nothing of the sort was done by ATF, what was done is this.
First it was hinted I should have known regardless of your advertisement and descriptions that I couldn't get a wool lined M41 because of the recent increase in the cost of wool. But you blame the company you get the items from which should never be mentioned to a customer (ATF habit of displacing blame instead of on themselves). You contend that they switched the material even though your price never changed and your competitor who sells the same jacket e-mailed me they never switched the lining on them, it has allways been acrylic. Then you act is if I was ignorant and thought that maybe what I was really wanting was a tanker jacket, not really a M41. Then after you go back and discretely change the decription you go back and act is if I read the description wrong. Again a constant habit of displacing blame.
The whole time ATF battled that it was in some way my error and you were doing me the favor. I wanted you to make things right and you returned arrogance, blame and treated me that I was so dumb I didn't know what kind of jacket I wanted. You then claim to be in sales for a company that makes reproduction WWII items like originals and you don't know how a real M41 is made. What you have done is told me you don't know what you sell..
Customer service at ATF is virtually non-existant.
Most consumers who are dissatisified with a resturant or dept stores usually end up telling 4-5 people close to them their poor experiance. I'm going to make a special effort to at least tell 45-50 people in the collecting community of the poor customer service and blame I recieved after recieving a product clearly not as advertised.
Hopefully this will change the way you conduct business in the future, even more so when the error is completely your fault.
Regards...
Perry Floyd
Perry,
What exactly do you want? You are blowing this way out of proportion. This is not an issue of morality or character. There's just no way to make you happy... I offered you several solutions to what I assumed your problem was. I mistakenly deduced that you wanted a better quality jacket and for me change the description.
I immediately offered to give you a full refund (including shipping), ADMITTED the description needed to be changed, DID so, suggested alternative products from us as well as another vendor. I never said you couldn't return it despite the patch being sewn on. Now how in the hell does that displace blame or accuse you of being in error? What precisely more could I have done to fulfill your definition of "customer service"? If you're looking for a massage or 2 years of free pizzas, you need to see someone else. Somehow I doubt this fits the bill for a punitive damages. I'll pay the mileage for your trip to the post if you pay for my aspirin.
My real error apparently was offering you an explanation as to why the description was wrong. Somehow you construed that to contain a litany of personal insults and finger pointing. It appears that you are the sort that reads into things or has an odd way of interpreting things and takes personal affront rather easily. You people baffle me. Perhaps I'm too dimwitted or shallow to understand.
We've told you 3 or 4 times now just to send the damned thing back for a refund. I changed the site and even gave you credit. We can even send a call tag for UPS Ground if it's that big a deal. However, we won't reimburse you for Overnight or some sort of hyper expensive expedited shipping.
Gina did not write the initial response. She came into this in the middle, after I changed the description. She wasn't trying to deceive you. Her suggestion that you might have wanted a tanker jacket was simply her trying to help, not insulting your intelligence. You were talking about wool lining, and Tanker's came to her mind. We get many, many confused inquiries from people who don't know the difference between a Tanker Jacket and a canteen cover. She deals with very confused cases all day long.
As for the jackets: the old run had no label stating acrylic or otherwise. It obviously had some polyester in it (notice I did not state "100%" wool), but I don't have the proper lab equipment here to analyze it. Perhaps I should invest in it. There was no evil intent to defraud anyone. I told you exactly and honestly why things were the way they were. I wrote that description 3-4 years ago. Of 400-450 jackets sold this year, yours is the first complaint about the lining. (We get several complaints per month about the left opening zippers and people who want the color tweaked). Please note that I corrected the description within 24 hours. (Apparently you managed to interpret THAT as yet some new attempt to demean you or your family)
There are about 280 pages within the site. I hunt mistakes nearly every day. There are probably a dozen or more obsolete descriptions or photos requiring a change at any given time. I act on them as soon as I am aware of them, regardless of whether I find them myself or they are pointed out by someone else. (Actually I leave them up to lure poor, unsuspecting types into my web deceit...)
My point about the cost of all-wool lining was to simply to inform you that there were 100% correct jackets available (not to insinuate that you were on food stamps or expecting too much) and to explain the price difference. However, you did mis-read the description: it NEVER said we manufacture them. I went out of my way to explain that fact on the site: note #3 in bold red text. That I have not changed since this began. (It was there not for you, but because a lot of people were wanting fabric swatches.) If you want to accuse me of lying about that, I have dated archive back-ups of the web-pages with which to prove otherwise.
As for your desire to tell the world, how's this? I'll help you out. Just so you don't feel like I'm ducking the blame again. I'm going to post this exchange on the site for you. I'll omit your email address unless you wish to fill in the details for those more curious. That'll let thousands know about my fraudulent descriptions, dishonesty and our horrific customer service. Threatening me and calling us lying thieves is, after all, the most efficient way to get me to re-examine my entire moral code and alter my behavior to one that suits you....
Bottomline, no hints, no lines to read between:
1. You can have ALL your money back.
2. I corrected the description.
3. I've hung your accusations and concerns out for everyone to see.
What else can we do for you?
Sincerely,
Rollin
a.k.a. Mr. Amoral Character Flaw
Reply as of Jan 2005
None.